List of 78+ Officially CONFIRMED Missing/Downgraded BASE features of the Sims 4

@bflury
I wasn't trying to nickpick your post apart. I was just pointing out how the things listed are redundant. Several things from The Sims 2 did not return to The Sims 3 so I really don't understand the "missing/downgraded features" part if you were trying to stay neutral. You could have just stated features not returning or have been changed. It is your opinion that they are a downgrade. For example, I think the fact that water and power will be shut off if bills are not paid is an upgrade over the repoman.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your other post at all. It's not "nitpicking" when you are simply engaging in discussion on a forum; that's the whole point of a forum. You were being very polite in your disagreements with several things on the list.

There are several things on the list that are mere opinions...in my opinion

You already mentioned the story progression and teen height thing but also consider no website for browsing the exchange; personally I think having an in game exchange is a huge improvement over having to visit a website.

Also consider "no newspapers." Unless I'm misremembering; every purpose a newspaper served has been served by computers since Sims 1.

It would be like getting upset that there are no land line telephones in Sims 4 even though there are cell phones, the land line phones would serve no purpose. In fact I can't even remember the last time I placed a phone in a home in Sims 3. Note I don't know if there are a lack of land line phones in Sims 4, just using it as an example.

I was mostly addressing with @Lokisimsies said about people nickpicking the list and attacking @bflury . I think the list has some good information in it but it seems negative in the way it is worded.

It was setup to be negative and that's not necessarily a bad thing; negative opinions are still opinions.

The problem arises when you let your bias get the better of you and you refuse to acknowledge wrong information because of it. I created the list of new features and I've had to remove several things off the list after people came forward and said I either had duplicate information in there (like listing second cooking skill and gourmet skill, I didn't realize gourmet skill was the second cooking skill) or I had wrong information in there (like Sims being left handed.)

I sincerely hope these two lists don't dissolve into what happened on the official forums with them. I already see it going there. Why would you go into the other list to tear it apart? You both have your own lists and people get value out of both of them. Can't it just be left at that?

That's what I meant by nitpicking. I really don't like seeing these lists torn apart, they are both incredibly subjective and picking through them only leads to arguments.

"Can't we all just get along...."

Either way, in about 3 weeks we will know if the game is a hit or miss and that should stop all the arguing. I'm excited for the game, even with the things taken out.

I'm a sheep and proud of it! I'm cute and fluffy! LOL <---what a cute emotie!

BTW - sorry if I made it seem as if the other list had no merit, it wasn't my intention. They both are lists that have value to their respective OPs and clearly they both feel very passionate about their lists.

I took issue with some of the items being misleading just as SleepyD2k. As I said before there is nothing wrong with discussing things on a forum; that's the whole point. If one makes a post and expects no one to ever disagree with anything in it then I feel that person isn't going to have a good time on the internet

After seeing trying to discuss things wasn't going anywhere I decided to instead just create a new features list so people could see both sides of the issue. For the most part I've stayed out of the other thread since then and I haven't "attacked" the list since.

I'll admit some of my behavior was unwarranted. While I still maintain that people should be free to discuss their opinions in a forum I think it was wrong of me to try and say some items on the list were too minor to consider being a missing feature. Who am I to say what is and is not important to other people?

@Lokisimsies I wasn't trying to be negative or tear the list apart. I was just trying to provide extra notes on the list. A lot of it is redundant and the post comes off as more negative in the wording that neutral. @bflury uses their opinion on several of the things on the list and it shows. If @bflury was interested in providing an accurate list, he would look at this information and keep it up-to-date instead of making it more of an opinionated list. He would look into why people have issues with things on the list and make corrections to provide the most accurate information possible.

@SleepyD2k - We've chatted enough today that I know you didn't mean anything like by it. I think I've gotten a good read on you and to quote my hubby "Youse good people...."

In the interest of being fair, have you guys gone through the other list and also kept it honest? Honest.....I'm not sure that's the right word. I just mean, have you guys gone through it to eliminate redundancy?

I guess I was seeing it all wrong but it just feels like some sort of competition and really it should just be state the facts and move on.

@Lokisimsies I haven't read the other list yet. I just noticed this one because it was at the top of the forum. I will check it out.

Absolutely no hard feelings. I generally don't take things personally. Even I know some of these features on our list are small (I certainly hadn't heard of them all). I welcome and encourage feedback to keep the list accurate.

The very nature of the list being what isn't included in the game is what makes the list appear negative. Ok, that and a smart ass remark at the very bottom. But that really wasn't the goal or intention. I have given this some thought and I believe I am going to cross link to either the pro list or the webpage where most of tai information came from anyway. My end goal was only to keep the buyer informed of actual features which were missing. I was assuming people were doing their own research to find that information and only looking to my list for what is missing, but perhaps that is the wrong point of view.

My list is structured in way that includes base things that came with patches as well as earlier versions. I had intended that ANYONE, whether the last game they played was Sims 2 or the latest patched up version of Sims 3 could take that experience and apply my list to get an expectation for what at minimum was in the game. Keep in mind not every buyer (or simmer) knows the history here, and if they bought the game only last week they would have no way of knowing that the original release didn't include feature X or Y since their copy did in fact have it.

I know there are some duplicates, we are working to address those. But part of the issue is people sometimes see duplicates where we are talking about two different things that resulted from a single change. For example, several people think Terrain Tools and Flat Lots are identical. They aren't though as SimCity 2013 had cities with height but no terrain tools. Also, people sometimes misread what we are saying such as "No Normal Careers" doesn't mean there are no careers at all. I'm trying to keep people straight, but I can only do so much.

In the end, whether a simmer is happy with the game or not is up to them alone.

Wow. No hard feelings... were all good.

@bflury I seriously think the title of the list should be changed to 78+ Confirmed Non-Returning Features in The Sims 4. The fact that you believe the features are missing/downgraded is a matter of opinion. The list is not negative but the title makes the list negative.

You should separate the list into replaced features. For example, saying that there are not normal careers is vague. It may make someone think there are not any careers in the game. You can instead list the careers that won't be returning. Also, something like flat lots is something a person could create in the Sims 2 & 3. I wouldn't consider flat lots a missing feature it would be more of a returning feature.

Changing the title to "non returning features" is definitely I could see happening. I kind of like it. I will have to ask the forum once it goes back up what they think in that regards. I'm growing tired of arguing the merits of whether it is considered "missing" or not, because there are some crazy folks on here will argue it couldn't be missing in a new game, despite being the NEXT INSTALLMENT in a running series. That discussion isn't worth my time

I actually do list out the careers not returning, although they are grouped together rather than separate line items.

Regarding things that are replaced. I knew about the repo man. The careers one is "iffy" because I gather that most people wouldn't consider this a change for the better. Are there any others where the cuts actually have some legit replacement for the better? I am not certain that is the case, but I would be glad to hear so.

Pre-emptively arguing that a differing opinion and the people who hold it is/are crazy is an interesting way to shut down discussion. Generally, when you call someone crazy they take offense. What I see is that people have different expectations in what the game should be. For those who aren't having their expectations met, that can be quite disappointing resulting in their bias as to whether the game is good or bad. People's biases are legitimate and should inform whether they decided if they like the game or not. But those biases will differ widely and can be confused for "objective" analysis when there really is nothing "objective" about likes and dislikes.

See, if you had started your list with a comment along these lines, it would be neutral. Posting Graham's comments and responding to them the way you did, not neutral. Don't get me started on how Joe's post reads--he really needs to do something similar. The last time I read his header, it made me cringe because it was simply poking a stick at people who aren't happy with the game. The fact is, you both started them with other agendas in mind (nope, not buying the innocent act from either of you ) and they've become more than that so making them as neutral as possible would do everyone a service. Though I get why neither of you really wants to.

I don't think that's necessarily fair

Poking a stick at people who go from thread to thread just to put down others who express interest in Sims 4? I can agree with that.

Poking a stick at people who aren't happy with the game? I wouldn't say that.

I think there is a huge difference between these two groups of people

Honestly one of the reasons I made my thread was because I couldn't believe the amount of negativity being expressed in that forum. It's like, okay, we get it, there are people who aren't happy with the game. But the way some of those people literally went from thread to thread seemingly in search of anyone who has something positive to say about the game just to put them down was over whelming.

If a neutral person were to enter those forums they would gather that no one was happy about the game and honestly when I started viewing them a few days ago I was really beginning to think I was alone over there with being excited about the game. About an hour after I started the thread I was really beginning to think I was in the extreme minority because the vast majority of replies I had gotten were from people who just wanted to come over and make fun of the list or me personally.

After a few hours went by it seemed a lot more people started to show up with new features they wanted to share and reading about features they weren't even aware of.

There is a difference. Unfortunately, your header on your list doesn't really make that distinction. Anyone who dislikes the game will see your comments and feel attacked. You don't make it clear because who's to say that "loud and boisterous" is meant as a specific distinction or simply an insult or opinion about a whole group of people. It reads like you're singling out everyone who dislikes the game, plain and simple.

ETA: I do understand what you're talking about regarding people who simply want to harass others who like the game. There was plenty of that going on. There were also plenty of people who liked the game being just as annoying and unpleasant to people who disliked the game. However, the people who disliked the game were essentially just quicker at posting, as far as I can tell, so there was constantly some sort of negative thread being added.

I saw one that said no acne? When in the hell was acne even in the sims anyway?

Teens had acne in TS2